<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Leonardo ?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/</link>
	<description>Drawings and their Appeal</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 18:27:38 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Renatius Barton</title>
		<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/comment-page-1/#comment-2436</link>
		<dc:creator>Renatius Barton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 18:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucyvivante.net/?p=765#comment-2436</guid>
		<description>Definitely NOT a Leonardo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely NOT a Leonardo.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Giselle</title>
		<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/comment-page-1/#comment-2434</link>
		<dc:creator>Giselle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucyvivante.net/?p=765#comment-2434</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with the “PS” post…this drawing is so obviously not even close to Leonardo’s mastery and technique and screams either blatant fraud or mediocre 18th to 19th century artist using widely available older vellum. Perhaps not to deceive at all, but just to emulate the style of earlier Italian works. OR, it’s just a recent forgery on appropriately aged supports with intent to deceive. 

Please consider and do extensive research into the parties involved in this case, convicted scam artists and a hopelessly pathetic “scholar” on Leonardo lost in a fantasy…OR JUST PROMOTING THE SALE OF HIS BOOK ABOUT THIS LOST DRAWING! 

The drawing is SO OVERWORKED, stiff, and monotonous that it amazes that anyone could possibly attribute this to any master, let alone the ultimate master Leonardo. It’s an abject insult to him. Look at the nostril alone! SO overdone and overworked in definition and heavy handed dead looking shading. 
And I agree that the lower eye area (and entire eye, in fact) called the “lower eyelid margin” is far too well outlined and defined to be the work of any master. The entire piece is far too overworked, period. There’s no fluidity to this piece, no life, no mark of genius like Leonardo’s inimitable ease and lively precision. 
I also agree with the limp, awkward, attempt at left crosshatching. And all of the cross hatching in general…not anywhere close to the fluidity and perfection of a master. 
And the hair is poorly done, heavily overworked, and absolutely contradictory to Leonardo’s voluptuous flowing strands that amaze in their lively dynamism.

This is a very pretty work at first glance, but the more it’s examined, the more overworked and mediocre it is. But it never struck me as even close to Leonardo’s mastery at any time, including first glance. I wouldn’t even buy it if it was claimed to be VERY early work by him in his youth. The genius simply isn’t there…it’s flat, heavy handed, and ultimately boring. And MEDIOCRE in the draftsmanship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with the “PS” post…this drawing is so obviously not even close to Leonardo’s mastery and technique and screams either blatant fraud or mediocre 18th to 19th century artist using widely available older vellum. Perhaps not to deceive at all, but just to emulate the style of earlier Italian works. OR, it’s just a recent forgery on appropriately aged supports with intent to deceive. </p>
<p>Please consider and do extensive research into the parties involved in this case, convicted scam artists and a hopelessly pathetic “scholar” on Leonardo lost in a fantasy…OR JUST PROMOTING THE SALE OF HIS BOOK ABOUT THIS LOST DRAWING! </p>
<p>The drawing is SO OVERWORKED, stiff, and monotonous that it amazes that anyone could possibly attribute this to any master, let alone the ultimate master Leonardo. It’s an abject insult to him. Look at the nostril alone! SO overdone and overworked in definition and heavy handed dead looking shading.<br />
And I agree that the lower eye area (and entire eye, in fact) called the “lower eyelid margin” is far too well outlined and defined to be the work of any master. The entire piece is far too overworked, period. There’s no fluidity to this piece, no life, no mark of genius like Leonardo’s inimitable ease and lively precision.<br />
I also agree with the limp, awkward, attempt at left crosshatching. And all of the cross hatching in general…not anywhere close to the fluidity and perfection of a master.<br />
And the hair is poorly done, heavily overworked, and absolutely contradictory to Leonardo’s voluptuous flowing strands that amaze in their lively dynamism.</p>
<p>This is a very pretty work at first glance, but the more it’s examined, the more overworked and mediocre it is. But it never struck me as even close to Leonardo’s mastery at any time, including first glance. I wouldn’t even buy it if it was claimed to be VERY early work by him in his youth. The genius simply isn’t there…it’s flat, heavy handed, and ultimately boring. And MEDIOCRE in the draftsmanship.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ps</title>
		<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/comment-page-1/#comment-2433</link>
		<dc:creator>ps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 06:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucyvivante.net/?p=765#comment-2433</guid>
		<description>The absolute lack of vitality and energy in this very static (but beautiful) work immediatley made me say no way, no how, absolutley not by Leonardo&#039;s lively, unique , and incomparably masterful hand. 
The left cross hatching looks forced, choppy,  and uneven and Leonardo&#039;s cross hatching is so precise it looks like he measured the spaces in between each incredibly straight but fluid line!  There&#039;s just no fluidity or effortlessness in this piece and it looks tooo contrived.
Also, the lower eyelid is far too well defined (as are other elements) and it looks like nothing similar to any other eye he&#039;s done that I&#039;ve seen in any drawing, sketch, or painting. 
My gut reaction upon first sight was that it&#039;s either a fabulous contemporary fake or a true late Renaissance to 18th century piece but definitely NOT by Leonardo. Looks more Germanic to me.
Where&#039;s the PROVENANCE? Odd how it&#039;s lacking and never mentioned. 
A very beautiful work but just far too static and lifeless for any relation to Leonardo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The absolute lack of vitality and energy in this very static (but beautiful) work immediatley made me say no way, no how, absolutley not by Leonardo&#8217;s lively, unique , and incomparably masterful hand.<br />
The left cross hatching looks forced, choppy,  and uneven and Leonardo&#8217;s cross hatching is so precise it looks like he measured the spaces in between each incredibly straight but fluid line!  There&#8217;s just no fluidity or effortlessness in this piece and it looks tooo contrived.<br />
Also, the lower eyelid is far too well defined (as are other elements) and it looks like nothing similar to any other eye he&#8217;s done that I&#8217;ve seen in any drawing, sketch, or painting.<br />
My gut reaction upon first sight was that it&#8217;s either a fabulous contemporary fake or a true late Renaissance to 18th century piece but definitely NOT by Leonardo. Looks more Germanic to me.<br />
Where&#8217;s the PROVENANCE? Odd how it&#8217;s lacking and never mentioned.<br />
A very beautiful work but just far too static and lifeless for any relation to Leonardo.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lucy Vivante</title>
		<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/comment-page-1/#comment-309</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy Vivante</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucyvivante.net/?p=765#comment-309</guid>
		<description>I agree with you about Holbein drawings. Someday I have to get myself to Basel and have a look at all the Holbein drawings, of the brothers and the father.

In my last comment, I was maybe too negative on the Profile. In the same way that it&#039;s better to set a guilty person free than imprison someone wrongfully, it&#039;s better to include rather than exclude drawings.

Will surely be interesting to read what C. Pedretti has to say.

All best wishes,

Lucy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you about Holbein drawings. Someday I have to get myself to Basel and have a look at all the Holbein drawings, of the brothers and the father.</p>
<p>In my last comment, I was maybe too negative on the Profile. In the same way that it&#8217;s better to set a guilty person free than imprison someone wrongfully, it&#8217;s better to include rather than exclude drawings.</p>
<p>Will surely be interesting to read what C. Pedretti has to say.</p>
<p>All best wishes,</p>
<p>Lucy</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brooke da Imola</title>
		<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/comment-page-1/#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooke da Imola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucyvivante.net/?p=765#comment-306</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the information! This is such an intriguing subject...I see what you are saying and I agree completely that it is not of Bianca Maria. I was just pointing out that fair coloring was the Petrarchan ideal much used for commemorative portraits during the Italian Renaissance in general. 

Absolutely, Bianca was known to Galeazzo Sanseverino as she had been bethrothed to him since she was 8 years old (the wedding was orginally formalized in 1489). To say this is a betrothal picture for Bianca Sforza to wed Galeazzo Sanseverino would be unfounded for sure. If this is Bianca Sforza (1483-1496), as you say it wouldn&#039;t necessarily be a betrothal portrait. It may have been commissioned to celebrate consummation which didn&#039;t take place until 1495), or it could have been painted after her death less than a year later.

Either way, I am not totally convinced that this is of Bianca Sforza - m. Sanseverino; maybe the experts are hoping to positively identify her as such because it fits nicely with it being by Leonardo at the height of his career at the Sforza court. She could very well be a minor Milanese or even Florentine noblewoman. It could equally be Anna Sforza, sister of Bianca Maria, and niece of Ludovico. She was married to Alfonso d&#039;Este in 1491. She also died very young, in 1496 or 1497 after giving birth. As you say, there is not enough documentary evidence to positively id the sitter one way or the other. Leonardo&#039;s inventory notes of the early 1480s hint that this might be what is described as &quot;head of a young woman with beautiful hair.&quot; Since I am of the opinion that it is earlier than mid 1490s, I like this idea. Now, I love that title, I think I&#039;ll start referring to it by that name! 

Ach! Holbein...my other love. I have contemplated many a Tudor court Holbein sketch. Holbein&#039;s portraits are realistically and perspectively perfect, like Leonardo&#039;s formal portraits - even as early as Ginevra de Benci (1470s) - but especially Il Moro&#039;s mistresses. To me they are exact interpretations of the sitter and their personality. I have looked at length at Holbein&#039;s Tudor court drawings, but his Basel works are equally perfect. The picture of Bonifacius Amerbach is made with colored chalks and ink as well. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bonifacius_Amerbach,_drawing_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg

Have a great day, and thanks again for your expert insight and wonderfully interesting article on &quot;Profile.&quot;

~ Brooke</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the information! This is such an intriguing subject&#8230;I see what you are saying and I agree completely that it is not of Bianca Maria. I was just pointing out that fair coloring was the Petrarchan ideal much used for commemorative portraits during the Italian Renaissance in general. </p>
<p>Absolutely, Bianca was known to Galeazzo Sanseverino as she had been bethrothed to him since she was 8 years old (the wedding was orginally formalized in 1489). To say this is a betrothal picture for Bianca Sforza to wed Galeazzo Sanseverino would be unfounded for sure. If this is Bianca Sforza (1483-1496), as you say it wouldn&#8217;t necessarily be a betrothal portrait. It may have been commissioned to celebrate consummation which didn&#8217;t take place until 1495), or it could have been painted after her death less than a year later.</p>
<p>Either way, I am not totally convinced that this is of Bianca Sforza &#8211; m. Sanseverino; maybe the experts are hoping to positively identify her as such because it fits nicely with it being by Leonardo at the height of his career at the Sforza court. She could very well be a minor Milanese or even Florentine noblewoman. It could equally be Anna Sforza, sister of Bianca Maria, and niece of Ludovico. She was married to Alfonso d&#8217;Este in 1491. She also died very young, in 1496 or 1497 after giving birth. As you say, there is not enough documentary evidence to positively id the sitter one way or the other. Leonardo&#8217;s inventory notes of the early 1480s hint that this might be what is described as &#8220;head of a young woman with beautiful hair.&#8221; Since I am of the opinion that it is earlier than mid 1490s, I like this idea. Now, I love that title, I think I&#8217;ll start referring to it by that name! </p>
<p>Ach! Holbein&#8230;my other love. I have contemplated many a Tudor court Holbein sketch. Holbein&#8217;s portraits are realistically and perspectively perfect, like Leonardo&#8217;s formal portraits &#8211; even as early as Ginevra de Benci (1470s) &#8211; but especially Il Moro&#8217;s mistresses. To me they are exact interpretations of the sitter and their personality. I have looked at length at Holbein&#8217;s Tudor court drawings, but his Basel works are equally perfect. The picture of Bonifacius Amerbach is made with colored chalks and ink as well. <a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bonifacius_Amerbach,_drawing_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bonifacius_Amerbach,_drawing_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg</a></p>
<p>Have a great day, and thanks again for your expert insight and wonderfully interesting article on &#8220;Profile.&#8221;</p>
<p>~ Brooke</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lucy Vivante</title>
		<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy Vivante</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucyvivante.net/?p=765#comment-304</guid>
		<description>Many thanks for your comments. Pisanello, the Pollaiolo brothers, Piero della Francesca all painted fair haired women. Most of Botticellis women were tow headed. Leonardo painted fair haired women.  What I was trying to say is that Giovanni Amborogio de Predis portrait of Bianca Maria shows a woman with different hair and eye color.

I&#039;ve read something of the Profile being considered an image akin to a pic uploaded to a dating site. As far as I know,  most 15th Italian portraits of women were painted after marriage. Bianca Giovanna Sforza was betrothed to a local Milanese. He would have known what she looked like. Also, I don&#039;t think they were so hung up on the looks of a wife since they could have as many mistresses as they wanted. The property was much more important.

To me, she looks much more like a sitter in a Holbein portrait. Actually, the more I look at it the more I worry about it being a pastiche and more 1996 than 1496.

All best, 
Lucy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks for your comments. Pisanello, the Pollaiolo brothers, Piero della Francesca all painted fair haired women. Most of Botticellis women were tow headed. Leonardo painted fair haired women.  What I was trying to say is that Giovanni Amborogio de Predis portrait of Bianca Maria shows a woman with different hair and eye color.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read something of the Profile being considered an image akin to a pic uploaded to a dating site. As far as I know,  most 15th Italian portraits of women were painted after marriage. Bianca Giovanna Sforza was betrothed to a local Milanese. He would have known what she looked like. Also, I don&#8217;t think they were so hung up on the looks of a wife since they could have as many mistresses as they wanted. The property was much more important.</p>
<p>To me, she looks much more like a sitter in a Holbein portrait. Actually, the more I look at it the more I worry about it being a pastiche and more 1996 than 1496.</p>
<p>All best,<br />
Lucy</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brooke da Imola</title>
		<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/comment-page-1/#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooke da Imola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucyvivante.net/?p=765#comment-298</guid>
		<description>In reply to: &quot;...this is where the drawing fails to convince me. The sitter conforms much more to a 19th or 20th century ideal of what a Renaissance beauty should look like, rather than a 15th century ideal, and much more to a Northern European than to an Italian ideal...At times I feel like I’m looking at Rapunzel.&quot;

Actually, the sitter in this portrait &quot;La Bella Principessa&quot; conforms very highly with the ideals of Italian Renaissance beauty. Fair hair and skin were highly regarded as the apex of beauty, as fashionable ladies would go through treatments to lighten their hair and skin to mimic this ideal. Absolutely! She is like a Rapunzel - after all, Rapunzel is a variant on the old Italian tale known as &quot;The Maiden in the Tower&quot; or &quot;Petrosinella&quot; written in the early 17th century. 

I guess my point (other than splitting hairs!)is to say it is very accurately placed contextually and as you stated, Leonardo da Vinci was an innovator, so why not use this media...he was always trying new things. Also, there is nothing else like it, and that in itself is also a point in favor of it being by da Vinci! As you noted above, the sitter is definitely not Bianca Maria Sforza, Ludovico&#039;s Il Moro&#039;s niece; she was married off to the Holy Roman Emperor Maximillian (hence her betrotal portrait above is thought to be depicting her wearing a good part of her dowry!), If she is a Sforza princess, she is probably Bianca (1483-1496), illegitimate daughter of Ludovico and his mistress Bernardina de Corradis (as you state above). The thought that da Vinci wouldn&#039;t make a portrait in profile later than the 1480s is strange - why not? In 1496 it was still the preferred method of depicting a lady in a betrotal portrait. To honor someone&#039;s beauty, achievements, and character (1480s &quot;Lady with an Ermine&quot; comes to mind)a frontal or 3/4 view would be ideal. His portrait cartoon of Isabella d&#039;Este - in partial profile was drawn in 1499 after all. It was never transferred to a mounting but had been pricked in advance (it was not a finished product, so to speak). To make a long comment short, her coloring and profile position are precisely why I&#039;m swayed! Sorry is I sound like an arrogant know-it-all (I&#039;m certain I know relatively little, and am just restating others original ideas!) Cheerio!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to: &#8220;&#8230;this is where the drawing fails to convince me. The sitter conforms much more to a 19th or 20th century ideal of what a Renaissance beauty should look like, rather than a 15th century ideal, and much more to a Northern European than to an Italian ideal&#8230;At times I feel like I’m looking at Rapunzel.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, the sitter in this portrait &#8220;La Bella Principessa&#8221; conforms very highly with the ideals of Italian Renaissance beauty. Fair hair and skin were highly regarded as the apex of beauty, as fashionable ladies would go through treatments to lighten their hair and skin to mimic this ideal. Absolutely! She is like a Rapunzel &#8211; after all, Rapunzel is a variant on the old Italian tale known as &#8220;The Maiden in the Tower&#8221; or &#8220;Petrosinella&#8221; written in the early 17th century. </p>
<p>I guess my point (other than splitting hairs!)is to say it is very accurately placed contextually and as you stated, Leonardo da Vinci was an innovator, so why not use this media&#8230;he was always trying new things. Also, there is nothing else like it, and that in itself is also a point in favor of it being by da Vinci! As you noted above, the sitter is definitely not Bianca Maria Sforza, Ludovico&#8217;s Il Moro&#8217;s niece; she was married off to the Holy Roman Emperor Maximillian (hence her betrotal portrait above is thought to be depicting her wearing a good part of her dowry!), If she is a Sforza princess, she is probably Bianca (1483-1496), illegitimate daughter of Ludovico and his mistress Bernardina de Corradis (as you state above). The thought that da Vinci wouldn&#8217;t make a portrait in profile later than the 1480s is strange &#8211; why not? In 1496 it was still the preferred method of depicting a lady in a betrotal portrait. To honor someone&#8217;s beauty, achievements, and character (1480s &#8220;Lady with an Ermine&#8221; comes to mind)a frontal or 3/4 view would be ideal. His portrait cartoon of Isabella d&#8217;Este &#8211; in partial profile was drawn in 1499 after all. It was never transferred to a mounting but had been pricked in advance (it was not a finished product, so to speak). To make a long comment short, her coloring and profile position are precisely why I&#8217;m swayed! Sorry is I sound like an arrogant know-it-all (I&#8217;m certain I know relatively little, and am just restating others original ideas!) Cheerio!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

