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	<title>Comments on: Leonardo ?</title>
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	<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/</link>
	<description>Drawings and their Appeal</description>
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		<title>By: Lucy Vivante</title>
		<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/comment-page-1/#comment-309</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy Vivante</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucyvivante.net/?p=765#comment-309</guid>
		<description>I agree with you about Holbein drawings. Someday I have to get myself to Basel and have a look at all the Holbein drawings, of the brothers and the father.

In my last comment, I was maybe too negative on the Profile. In the same way that it&#039;s better to set a guilty person free than imprison someone wrongfully, it&#039;s better to include rather than exclude drawings.

Will surely be interesting to read what C. Pedretti has to say.

All best wishes,

Lucy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you about Holbein drawings. Someday I have to get myself to Basel and have a look at all the Holbein drawings, of the brothers and the father.</p>
<p>In my last comment, I was maybe too negative on the Profile. In the same way that it&#8217;s better to set a guilty person free than imprison someone wrongfully, it&#8217;s better to include rather than exclude drawings.</p>
<p>Will surely be interesting to read what C. Pedretti has to say.</p>
<p>All best wishes,</p>
<p>Lucy</p>
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		<title>By: Brooke da Imola</title>
		<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/comment-page-1/#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooke da Imola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucyvivante.net/?p=765#comment-306</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the information! This is such an intriguing subject...I see what you are saying and I agree completely that it is not of Bianca Maria. I was just pointing out that fair coloring was the Petrarchan ideal much used for commemorative portraits during the Italian Renaissance in general. 

Absolutely, Bianca was known to Galeazzo Sanseverino as she had been bethrothed to him since she was 8 years old (the wedding was orginally formalized in 1489). To say this is a betrothal picture for Bianca Sforza to wed Galeazzo Sanseverino would be unfounded for sure. If this is Bianca Sforza (1483-1496), as you say it wouldn&#039;t necessarily be a betrothal portrait. It may have been commissioned to celebrate consummation which didn&#039;t take place until 1495), or it could have been painted after her death less than a year later.

Either way, I am not totally convinced that this is of Bianca Sforza - m. Sanseverino; maybe the experts are hoping to positively identify her as such because it fits nicely with it being by Leonardo at the height of his career at the Sforza court. She could very well be a minor Milanese or even Florentine noblewoman. It could equally be Anna Sforza, sister of Bianca Maria, and niece of Ludovico. She was married to Alfonso d&#039;Este in 1491. She also died very young, in 1496 or 1497 after giving birth. As you say, there is not enough documentary evidence to positively id the sitter one way or the other. Leonardo&#039;s inventory notes of the early 1480s hint that this might be what is described as &quot;head of a young woman with beautiful hair.&quot; Since I am of the opinion that it is earlier than mid 1490s, I like this idea. Now, I love that title, I think I&#039;ll start referring to it by that name! 

Ach! Holbein...my other love. I have contemplated many a Tudor court Holbein sketch. Holbein&#039;s portraits are realistically and perspectively perfect, like Leonardo&#039;s formal portraits - even as early as Ginevra de Benci (1470s) - but especially Il Moro&#039;s mistresses. To me they are exact interpretations of the sitter and their personality. I have looked at length at Holbein&#039;s Tudor court drawings, but his Basel works are equally perfect. The picture of Bonifacius Amerbach is made with colored chalks and ink as well. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bonifacius_Amerbach,_drawing_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg

Have a great day, and thanks again for your expert insight and wonderfully interesting article on &quot;Profile.&quot;

~ Brooke</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the information! This is such an intriguing subject&#8230;I see what you are saying and I agree completely that it is not of Bianca Maria. I was just pointing out that fair coloring was the Petrarchan ideal much used for commemorative portraits during the Italian Renaissance in general. </p>
<p>Absolutely, Bianca was known to Galeazzo Sanseverino as she had been bethrothed to him since she was 8 years old (the wedding was orginally formalized in 1489). To say this is a betrothal picture for Bianca Sforza to wed Galeazzo Sanseverino would be unfounded for sure. If this is Bianca Sforza (1483-1496), as you say it wouldn&#8217;t necessarily be a betrothal portrait. It may have been commissioned to celebrate consummation which didn&#8217;t take place until 1495), or it could have been painted after her death less than a year later.</p>
<p>Either way, I am not totally convinced that this is of Bianca Sforza &#8211; m. Sanseverino; maybe the experts are hoping to positively identify her as such because it fits nicely with it being by Leonardo at the height of his career at the Sforza court. She could very well be a minor Milanese or even Florentine noblewoman. It could equally be Anna Sforza, sister of Bianca Maria, and niece of Ludovico. She was married to Alfonso d&#8217;Este in 1491. She also died very young, in 1496 or 1497 after giving birth. As you say, there is not enough documentary evidence to positively id the sitter one way or the other. Leonardo&#8217;s inventory notes of the early 1480s hint that this might be what is described as &#8220;head of a young woman with beautiful hair.&#8221; Since I am of the opinion that it is earlier than mid 1490s, I like this idea. Now, I love that title, I think I&#8217;ll start referring to it by that name! </p>
<p>Ach! Holbein&#8230;my other love. I have contemplated many a Tudor court Holbein sketch. Holbein&#8217;s portraits are realistically and perspectively perfect, like Leonardo&#8217;s formal portraits &#8211; even as early as Ginevra de Benci (1470s) &#8211; but especially Il Moro&#8217;s mistresses. To me they are exact interpretations of the sitter and their personality. I have looked at length at Holbein&#8217;s Tudor court drawings, but his Basel works are equally perfect. The picture of Bonifacius Amerbach is made with colored chalks and ink as well. <a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bonifacius_Amerbach,_drawing_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bonifacius_Amerbach,_drawing_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg</a></p>
<p>Have a great day, and thanks again for your expert insight and wonderfully interesting article on &#8220;Profile.&#8221;</p>
<p>~ Brooke</p>
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		<title>By: Lucy Vivante</title>
		<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy Vivante</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucyvivante.net/?p=765#comment-304</guid>
		<description>Many thanks for your comments. Pisanello, the Pollaiolo brothers, Piero della Francesca all painted fair haired women. Most of Botticellis women were tow headed. Leonardo painted fair haired women.  What I was trying to say is that Giovanni Amborogio de Predis portrait of Bianca Maria shows a woman with different hair and eye color.

I&#039;ve read something of the Profile being considered an image akin to a pic uploaded to a dating site. As far as I know,  most 15th Italian portraits of women were painted after marriage. Bianca Giovanna Sforza was betrothed to a local Milanese. He would have known what she looked like. Also, I don&#039;t think they were so hung up on the looks of a wife since they could have as many mistresses as they wanted. The property was much more important.

To me, she looks much more like a sitter in a Holbein portrait. Actually, the more I look at it the more I worry about it being a pastiche and more 1996 than 1496.

All best, 
Lucy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks for your comments. Pisanello, the Pollaiolo brothers, Piero della Francesca all painted fair haired women. Most of Botticellis women were tow headed. Leonardo painted fair haired women.  What I was trying to say is that Giovanni Amborogio de Predis portrait of Bianca Maria shows a woman with different hair and eye color.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read something of the Profile being considered an image akin to a pic uploaded to a dating site. As far as I know,  most 15th Italian portraits of women were painted after marriage. Bianca Giovanna Sforza was betrothed to a local Milanese. He would have known what she looked like. Also, I don&#8217;t think they were so hung up on the looks of a wife since they could have as many mistresses as they wanted. The property was much more important.</p>
<p>To me, she looks much more like a sitter in a Holbein portrait. Actually, the more I look at it the more I worry about it being a pastiche and more 1996 than 1496.</p>
<p>All best,<br />
Lucy</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brooke da Imola</title>
		<link>http://lucyvivante.net/2010/01/17/leonardo/comment-page-1/#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooke da Imola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lucyvivante.net/?p=765#comment-298</guid>
		<description>In reply to: &quot;...this is where the drawing fails to convince me. The sitter conforms much more to a 19th or 20th century ideal of what a Renaissance beauty should look like, rather than a 15th century ideal, and much more to a Northern European than to an Italian ideal...At times I feel like I’m looking at Rapunzel.&quot;

Actually, the sitter in this portrait &quot;La Bella Principessa&quot; conforms very highly with the ideals of Italian Renaissance beauty. Fair hair and skin were highly regarded as the apex of beauty, as fashionable ladies would go through treatments to lighten their hair and skin to mimic this ideal. Absolutely! She is like a Rapunzel - after all, Rapunzel is a variant on the old Italian tale known as &quot;The Maiden in the Tower&quot; or &quot;Petrosinella&quot; written in the early 17th century. 

I guess my point (other than splitting hairs!)is to say it is very accurately placed contextually and as you stated, Leonardo da Vinci was an innovator, so why not use this media...he was always trying new things. Also, there is nothing else like it, and that in itself is also a point in favor of it being by da Vinci! As you noted above, the sitter is definitely not Bianca Maria Sforza, Ludovico&#039;s Il Moro&#039;s niece; she was married off to the Holy Roman Emperor Maximillian (hence her betrotal portrait above is thought to be depicting her wearing a good part of her dowry!), If she is a Sforza princess, she is probably Bianca (1483-1496), illegitimate daughter of Ludovico and his mistress Bernardina de Corradis (as you state above). The thought that da Vinci wouldn&#039;t make a portrait in profile later than the 1480s is strange - why not? In 1496 it was still the preferred method of depicting a lady in a betrotal portrait. To honor someone&#039;s beauty, achievements, and character (1480s &quot;Lady with an Ermine&quot; comes to mind)a frontal or 3/4 view would be ideal. His portrait cartoon of Isabella d&#039;Este - in partial profile was drawn in 1499 after all. It was never transferred to a mounting but had been pricked in advance (it was not a finished product, so to speak). To make a long comment short, her coloring and profile position are precisely why I&#039;m swayed! Sorry is I sound like an arrogant know-it-all (I&#039;m certain I know relatively little, and am just restating others original ideas!) Cheerio!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to: &#8220;&#8230;this is where the drawing fails to convince me. The sitter conforms much more to a 19th or 20th century ideal of what a Renaissance beauty should look like, rather than a 15th century ideal, and much more to a Northern European than to an Italian ideal&#8230;At times I feel like I’m looking at Rapunzel.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, the sitter in this portrait &#8220;La Bella Principessa&#8221; conforms very highly with the ideals of Italian Renaissance beauty. Fair hair and skin were highly regarded as the apex of beauty, as fashionable ladies would go through treatments to lighten their hair and skin to mimic this ideal. Absolutely! She is like a Rapunzel &#8211; after all, Rapunzel is a variant on the old Italian tale known as &#8220;The Maiden in the Tower&#8221; or &#8220;Petrosinella&#8221; written in the early 17th century. </p>
<p>I guess my point (other than splitting hairs!)is to say it is very accurately placed contextually and as you stated, Leonardo da Vinci was an innovator, so why not use this media&#8230;he was always trying new things. Also, there is nothing else like it, and that in itself is also a point in favor of it being by da Vinci! As you noted above, the sitter is definitely not Bianca Maria Sforza, Ludovico&#8217;s Il Moro&#8217;s niece; she was married off to the Holy Roman Emperor Maximillian (hence her betrotal portrait above is thought to be depicting her wearing a good part of her dowry!), If she is a Sforza princess, she is probably Bianca (1483-1496), illegitimate daughter of Ludovico and his mistress Bernardina de Corradis (as you state above). The thought that da Vinci wouldn&#8217;t make a portrait in profile later than the 1480s is strange &#8211; why not? In 1496 it was still the preferred method of depicting a lady in a betrotal portrait. To honor someone&#8217;s beauty, achievements, and character (1480s &#8220;Lady with an Ermine&#8221; comes to mind)a frontal or 3/4 view would be ideal. His portrait cartoon of Isabella d&#8217;Este &#8211; in partial profile was drawn in 1499 after all. It was never transferred to a mounting but had been pricked in advance (it was not a finished product, so to speak). To make a long comment short, her coloring and profile position are precisely why I&#8217;m swayed! Sorry is I sound like an arrogant know-it-all (I&#8217;m certain I know relatively little, and am just restating others original ideas!) Cheerio!</p>
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